#gas cars catch fire more then EV's so Ev's are sAfEr

[observationcoffee]

EV's are saving the car industry, not the environment. The fact that it's a "cleaner" source of energy is just a nice buzzword they can advertise with. It's Greenwashing.

Lithium is straight up not part of a green future imo, it's as bad as coal and gas* if not worse in some ways. You aren't personally seeing the damage on the environment first hand because advertisers sell it as a clean energy source, but it is catastrophic to the local water table and environment. I'm not saying it isn't a step towards a greener future. Moving away from non-renewable resources is always a good thing (even if lithium isn't renewable, just able to be recharged with renewable energy). That being said, hand waving away the problems the industry does have keeps letting manufacturers and mining companies as a whole get away with letting these issues continue. Especially in regards to safety. This includes musk mans teslas

There is already a post in the notes about the actual mining of lithium and the fact in many countries, workers are currently being exploited (child labor) and not being protected during the mining process. Lithium is incredibly toxic, and the process needs water in order to separate the lithium AND cobalt salts via evaporation to purify them. Many facilities that do this create massive open air pools that are well known to be leaking these toxic salts into the soil, not to mention the fumes are incredibly toxic. The important thing to note though, is these open air "lakes" at this point in time are not REVERSIBLE. Once they are established that section of land is permanently damaged by the salts, acids and polluted water leaching into the soil. Op mentioned this, but it IS something people should think about when purchasing and using EV's or any device that has lithium batteries for that matter.

My main beef with lithium batteries, esp with vehicles and the scooters is how dangerous the batteries are. There are multiple scientists which I will link some of their videos to that are attempting to educate and warn both firefighter's and the public about how volatile those batteries are. I am also not the only one having issues with the safety, while it is currently cheaper to afford an EV the insurance rates on those cars is going to be going up if it hasn't already in your area. It has in mine. Many cities (in my country at least) are also restricting where these vehicles can be parked, there are bylaws being passed that won't allow EV's to be parked underground or in sheltered parking areas (including garages that are shared with other vehicles). Why? Because these batteries (esp if they aren't laboratory tested and approved) if overcharged can spontaneously combust while parked. The fumes these flames produce is also incredibly toxic compared to standard gas fires (Hydrofluoric gas) among other chemicals which are severely under studied on how they are affecting your body beyond the obvious hydrofluoric acid that burns your lungs/nose/eyes. Hazmat is called for EV fires for these reasons.

These fires are also much hotter then traditional gas fires, capable of melting asphalt and concrete within seconds of ignition. Hence why the ban on underground parking because a lithium fire WILL cause structural support damage. And it isn't just overcharging, mechanical damage, wear and tear, water will all cause the batteries to catastrophically fail. There is footage of an EV having a minor collision with another vehicle that was enough to cause it to combust shown in the video link I have bellow. Most standard EV's also have their batteries stored on the bottom of the car in a sealed metal case instead of under the hood like with gas powered engines (you are sitting over the battery), this also means that if there is a fire there is the additional challenge for firefighters to be able to put out the flame due to it being blocked by the actual vehicle itself. Public transport EV's (buses) have them on the roof but the rate of failure in those batteries is even higher then personal EV's at the moment because of overcharging and cheap batteries that fail to meet standards.

Thermal runaway means that through the chemical reaction occurring, the fire is able to produce its own fuel, oxygen and heat to remain burning. There are many cases where once these fires start they can burn for literal days. It takes 40x the water compared to a standard gas fire to smother, and even then it isn't effective because it is a class B fire, meaning that you need chemical foams or carbon dioxide to kill the fire, which again is hard if its on the underside of the vehicle. These batteries can also REIGNITE DAYS TO WEEKS AFTER THE INITIAL FIRE BTW.

TW: Death, Car accidents, Injury seen in the video.

I want to restate that i do NOT want to keep driving around in a gas powered vehicle, I want a greener future! But tesla is just the tip of the iceberg for the problems that the EV and battery industry is facing/downplaying. These are topics that should be discussed and just because people have safety concerns doesn't make them gas guzzlers, that is very disingenuous. Alot of people concerned are people who are knowledgeable about the industry, or are people who are trained to deal with fires and such related to these industries.

The answer in my mind isn't to sit there and downplay these peoples concerns, but to address the very real elephant in the room. People have the right to make informed decisions about their purchases. If you want to look past all this so that you can support a company that may or may not work towards a greener future, that is your choice. But people who want to wait for safer alternatives are not wrong for doing so either. But if we are going to be stuck with lithium batteries for the foreseeable future there needs to be a push from voters to push policies to crack down on second hand battery sales, screening and banning of sub par non lab tested batteries, the removal of underground parking, and public education on battery maintenance and safety. But ultimately we need to get away from Lithium. You could argue its a stepping stone in the right direction, but until you remove big oil from the entire process of producing, powering and repairing/maintaining these vehicles it's still not a green solution.

please do not go so hard at "Elon is terrible and the Cybertruck is a dumpster fire" (which is true) that you somehow make your way to "electric cars are all ticking time bombs" (which is false, and mostly said by people who want to keep driving combustion engine cars perpetually because they think the climate crisis is made up)

[vantagetag]

The Next Thing in Electric Fleet Vehicles?

There’s obviously a lot of talk about the coming wave of EV and autonomous vehicles in both consumer and commercial markets. Despite the fanfare (or infamy) of these coming technological evolutions, there are a couple of present-day roadblocks that fleet managers are looking to solve. One of the biggest issues with EV is the battery life relative to the distance a vehicle can travel. For long haul trucking, we’re just not there yet.

But the future holds a lot of promise for both EV and fuel-powered trucks. So we sat down with Gleb Yushin, Professor, School of Materials Science and Engineering at Georgia Tech to talk about his research and what’s in store for next-generation battery options in trucking.

Better Batteries? Let’s Talk About Electrolytes

There are two principle types of electrolytes used in batteries: liquid electrolytes and solid state electrolytes. Truck and car batteries contain a liquid often referred to as “battery acid.” These are, in fact, liquid electrolytes. In most cases, these batteries are safe. But in the case of an accident, the standard liquid electrolyte battery can become a liability should there be a fire as the liquid inside the battery is flammable. These batteries may also emit flammable hydrogen gas.

So when it comes to safety, it stands to reason that a non-volatile alternative to liquid electrolyte batteries would be desirable. Dr. Yushin’s team at Georgia Tech has done just that: they’ve created a battery that uses solid state electrolytes that is safer. Dr. Yushin explains this in a bit more detail:

“Solid electrolytes do offer additional safety and (in the case of our technology, potential cost savings). This could be particularly important for use in electric planes or electric or hybrid electric ships or submarines, where safe evacuation within 5-10 min (or even 20-30 min) is often not feasible. For semi-trucks, safety may also be more important than for passenger vehicles. This is because a larger-sized semi truck can do so much more damage to the road or bridge or building if it catches on fire or explodes, for example, due to spilled diesel fuel or collision (just recently I read about 17 semi-trailers caught fire due to fuel spill). While electric semi trucks are likely going to be safer than diesel trucks, the all-solid state battery-powered semi trucks would offer the ultimate safety.”

How Does This New Battery Technology Impact Price?

There’s great news for curious battery manufacturers and fleet owners alike: Yushin’s technology isn’t just safer and more stable. Existing factories can produce them without intensive retrofitting that would be cost-prohibitive:

“Because some of the solid electrolytes that we demonstrated can potentially make battery preconditioning (at the factory) faster and safer and, we expect, meaningfully reduce the battery factory testing and transportation expenses, one may estimate up to 15% direct cost savings. However, because the reported solid state battery manufacturing technology is compatible with novel anode and cathode chemistries…the eventual cost-savings for the next-generation battery technologies could be significantly larger (up to 3x, longer-term).”

The other significant improvement with Yushin’s technology is around the cell density of his batteries. “At the vehicle level, higher volumetric energy allows for a longer driving range for the same battery pack size,” says Yushin.

But the big payoff is in the weight of these batteries:

“Higher gravimetric energy enables lighter batteries. This is particularly important because of the federal limits on the total/loaded truck weight on the highway (80,000 Lb total vehicle weight). So if a regular empty truck weighs 35,000 Lb, it can carry up to a 45,000 Lb load. With, say, a 1000 kWh battery pack and say, 200 Wh/kg battery pack-level specific energy the battery weight would be 5,000 kg or 11,000 Lb.

Even if the electric truck without a battery weighs, say, 30,000 Lb, the 11,000 Lb battery would reduce the max load by 13%. However, if the battery weight is reduced by, say, 2-2.5x there would be no reduction in the maximum load when moving from diesel semi truck to an electric semi truck. Since electricity could be 10x cheaper than diesel/gasoline such lighter batteries would enable significant cost savings in addition to protecting the planet” says Yushin.

[evpowersystem-blog]

Did YOU Know ?

I would like to inform you of something you may or may not be aware of... I would like to point out that this is Not about Climate Change! It is however about the pollution and the TOXIC chemicals, that are produced by the burning of Petroleum Fuels, Gasoline, Diesel, Propane and Compressed Natural Gas, to power our vehicles.I know that most people go through life never realizing that they are slowly being poisoned by the very air you Breathe! Almost everyone attributes their health decline on their age or other factors! But most of your health problems that are not hereditary, viruses, bacteria, fungi or parasitic infections... Are caused by vehicle exhaust emissions! FACTS:At just 6,400 ppm (0.64%)  Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Convulsions, respiratory arrest, and death in less than 20 minutes. At Just 12,800 ppm (1.28%) Unconsciousness after 2 or 3 breaths. Death in less than three minutes. Study: Air pollution causes 200,000 early deaths each year in the USA.  New MIT study finds vehicle exhaust emissions are the biggest contributor to these premature deaths. So please do your own research.This was my Google search:  deaths caused by vehicle exhaust in the United States. per year . Fact:  Shell Oil stated, Peak Oil Demand Could Be Reached In 2021.  Where demand exceeds production. Fact: Petroleum Products & Fuels, are not Renewable products, even though the products are produced by the Earth, it will take millions of years to replace what has been used! So ask yourself these 2 Question: 1.  What will you do when Fuel cost are $3.69 to over $5.00 per gallon  ??? 2.  What is your plan for when there is no more Fuel  ??? This is just a few, of the many reason we must move away from using petroleum fuels to power our transportation! Think of it this way...  If the USA is powered by 100% renewable energy, Solar, Wind, Hydro Electric, and all transportation is electric powered!The USA will be energy independent! Now to a more positive subject! There are two ( 2 ) Clean options to power our vehicles, and they both use Electric Motors to replace the dirty, Internal Combustion Engine ( ICE ). 1.  BEV’s Battery Electric Vehicles, that you plug in to recharge. 2.  Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles, that you refuel your tank at a Hydrogen Fueling Station. Option 1. Is the Battery Electric Vehicles that are plugged in to recharge called a BEV, like the TESLA model S and the Model  X, and soon the Model 3, and the other current production EV’s like the Chevy Bolt, the KIA Soul EV, the Nissan Leaf, to name a few. The number of Electric Charging Stations in the USA, is 10,000 or more!, Not counting Tesla's charging stations. But TESLA is the only company that has a consistent charging system in place, so that the owners of Tesla vehicles, can drive just about anywhere in the USA, and be at a charging station when it is time to recharge, providing they allow the in car navigation system to plan there route. There have been a few people who have tried to plan their own route and have ended up wasting over 8 hours to get enough charge just to make it to a Tesla charging station. While other charging station for other vehicle brands, GM, KIA, Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, are not consistent, and they very in charging power and time allowed and Price. Some only allow 30 minutes before the charger shuts off, and you come back after two hours, thinking you can unplug your vehicle and be on your way to only find that your battery was only partially charged. Option 2. Hydrogen fuel cell Vehicles, have a longer rang in the miles that you can drive on a full tank, are similar to most gasoline vehicles, between 300 to 400 miles per tank.The problem is that there are only about 33 hydrogen Fueling Stations in the USA., as of 3-14-2017! And they will be adding more but like the charging stations, you will have different companies, who are building out the infrastructure, so the price per kilogram which is 2.2 pounds will vary.The new Hydrogen cars have tanks that hold 5 kilograms or 10 pounds of hydrogen at 10,000 PSI., pounds per square inch. You cannot fill up your Hydrogen Fuel Tank and let it sit for a week, as you will find that your Hydrogen tank is empty or almost empty... WHY ? The Hydrogen molecule is so small that it passes through the fuel tanks wall, they have been able to slow the escape of the hydrogen gas, but have not been able to completely stop it... Electric motors are the Cleanest and most Efficient way to power your Vehicle, and have always been. The Batteries have been and still are the main problem, for EV’s. The Lithium batteries that are being used for EV’s, are not a stable chemistry, they are of higher energy density, which enables a vehicle to drive further, but it is why you have heard on the news of Tesla's catching fire and it always starts in the battery pack. I am not knocking Tesla at all, I just wish Tesla, would use the LiFePO4 batteries, as they are very stable and a lot safer chemistry, they might have less range, but at least your car would not burn to the ground, with all your stuff in it. Well we have a Better solution that can be ready within a year, providing our Crowd Funding Campaign on Indiegogo is successful... Advanced, Game Changing DC Power Generation Technology! RangeLess, Inc. is a company incorporated in the State of Florida. RangeLess, Inc., Has designed and developed an energy technology that is unmatched, and infinite!The EV Power System. TM. Was designed for, vehicles that were factory built, (ICE) Internal Combustion Engine powered vehicles, and were then converted to all Electric Drive. The EV Power System. TM.   Enables every type of vehicle; Cars, Trucks, Vans, SUV’s, Motorcycles, Buses, RVs, Boats, Air Boats, Yachts, Single and Twin Aircraft, Helicopters, etc... to become Zero emission, electric vehicles with unlimited range, once they are converted! And in the future, we will be able to power Corporate Aircraft, Commercial Aircraft, Trains, Ships, without any emissions! Example: You have a full size Chevrolet Suburban That has been converted to electric, you could have a range of 60 to 125 miles just on the battery pack, before needing to recharge, but add the EV Power System. TM. And you have unlimited range, zero emissions, zero cost, other than your normal maintenance cost and upkeep which is less than 25% the cost of a Gasoline vehicle. Let me tell you up front that, there will be people who will tell you this is not possible, you may even be one of those people. Well I am here to tell you and anyone else, that it is possible and it does work, and I can prove it! This is a little info of how the system works: Example: You have a KIA Soul EV that has 97 mile range on the battery pack, you bring it to our Conversion Center to have the EV Power System. TM.  installed, once this is done you will be shown the how the system is connected and how it works. As far as the switching on the vehicle, there will be no change, where you will notice the difference is the the charge indicator or the miles you can drive will not decrease in range as it did before the EV Power System. TM. was installed. If an error occurs with the EV Power System, it will alert you that it is disconnecting, and that you are on your battery pack only and to recharge as you normally would.And to take it to a Certified Service Center for repair, at first opportunity. The components that make up the system have a 30,000 hour minimum life, but things do break or fail.

[ralfmaximus]

It’s not just Tesla, it’s any electric vehicle. But since there are more Teslas in existence when an EV catches fire, statistically it’ll be a Tesla.

EVs don’t catch fire often, but when they do they release a lot of thermal energy over a long period of time... unlike a gasoline fire, which stops when all the gas burns off. And since EV batteries are really just hundreds of smaller batteries crammed into close proximity, the fire spontaneously re-ignites as each one bursts from heat.

Using water to put out a battery fire is a terrible idea, since water conducts electricity. What you need is powdered graphite, which smothers the fire, absorbs heat, and is non-conductive. It’s also the same stuff used to make nuclear reactor control rods. Had the Tyrol fire department had access to graphite the fire would have been out in minutes... but as you can guess, the number of fire departments in the world equipped with powdered graphite is close to zero.

This might be a short term problem though, since the real issue is cobalt: it’s a metal that burns like crazy once ignited, and a critical component to the lithium-ion batteries in EVs.

Once the industry transitions away from lithium-ion to something safer (like lithium-phosphate or nickel-aluminum) batteries will become less likely to spontaneously explode and burn. Solid state batteries are coming too, and those are inert: completely safe from fire risk.

So yeah, Elon Musk is a shitty human being and his cars are rolling bombs, a tiny percentage of which will explode for no reason. But as battery technology improves that particular problem will go away.

elon musk fans when their tesla explodes and kills them